It’s been a minute! We’re happy to be back.

We are kicking off the 2025 Uncommon Business line up with an absolute banger.

Today’s interview is with Jenny Nguyen, the founder and owner of The Sports Bra, which is the world’s first sports bar dedicated 100% to women’s sports.

Jenny is…awesome.

She is a hardcore no ego doer. She is simultaneously extremely low key and also incredibly visionary and ambitious. She is kind, fun to talk to, and she has absolutely astute business instincts.

This was one of my favorite conversations we’ve had on the pod.

You can listen to our conversation with Jenny right here in Substack (scroll up), on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Jenny Nguyen is Just Warming Up

Jenny Nguyen is the founder and owner of The Sports Bra, the world’s first sports bar that is 100% dedicated to women’s sports.

“The Bra,” which is how Jenny refers to her establishment in casual conversation, has absolutely exploded since it first opened in April of 2022 in Portland, Oregon. It is not uncommon to show up on a normal weeknight and have to wait for a seat, particularly if there is a notable game on.

After The Bra became a local sensation, the business attracted an investment from the 776 Foundation, which is run by Alexis Ohanian, the co-founder of Reddit and husband to Serena Williams. Now the Bra is in the process of expanding to other markets through franchising.

During this interview we dive into Jenny’s unique entrepreneurial journey, the founding story of The Sports Bra, Jenny’s ambitions for the future, how she runs her business, her day-to-day life, and much more.

After the interview, Keeley and I debrief.

This was a fantastic interview with a lot of great insights for entrepreneurs, leaders, and anyone who wants to challenge the status quo.

Topics Discussed:

• Intro from Peter and Keeley

• The Philosophy of The Sports Bra

• Jenny's career journey

• The Birth of the Sports Bra Concept

• From Idea to Reality

• Community Support and Kickstarter Success

• Challenges and Criticisms

• Partnership with Alexis Ohanian

• The Decision to Franchise

• Understanding Franchise Ownership

• Raising Funds for Expansion

• Selecting the Right Franchisee

• Imposter Syndrome

• The Vision for the Future

• Beyond Sports: Community Impact

• Personal Reflections and Leadership

• Rapid Fire Questions

• Debrief of Jenny's interview with Peter and Keeley

Please help this interview reach more people by rating Uncommon Business on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

The Uncommon Business Bulletin is a weekly roundup of ideas, news, links, and resources for mission-driven businesses, leaders, employees, entrepreneurs, and curious humans.

1. The VRR Framework for Effective Meetings

One of our clients at Lumo Group is a Founder/CEO with a small team working to get the company to the next level.

During our work together, we determined that a key step to achieving the company’s goals is designing more effective leadership meetings.

We are currently working to implement our VRR Meeting Framework:

VRR: Values, Rules, and Roles: The Key Ingredients of Successful Meetings

1. Values: What are our internal company values for how we work together? Some examples might be: “We give each other the benefit of the doubt.” Or “We encourage discussion and debate.” (These are actual values I am borrowing from Green Zebra Grocery, where I used to work. I love both of them so I borrow them often.)

2. Rules: What are the ground rules for our meetings? Ground rules are guidelines that all meeting attendees must explicitly agree to in order to be a part of the leadership team and attend the meeting. For example, one that we came up with for this client was: “When giving feedback, we focus on what is best for the company and our larger mission.”

3. Roles: Finally, what role will each meeting participant play? Examples: Facilitator, Devil’s Advocate, Note Taker and Action Item Tracker. Not every person needs a formal role, but there are some key ones that are good to assign. It can be helpful to rotate roles to avoid role fatigue and give everyone a chance to try out each role.

How are meetings at your organization? Are they as effective as you would like?

If not, consider what it might be like to design a VRR framework for your organization. (A tip: We recommend that you, as the leader, complete a first draft, and then bring to the team for additions and refinement, rather than coming with a completely empty page).

2. The 11 Laws of Showrunning

I came across an essay from 2016 by screenwriter Javier Grillo-Marxuach titled The Eleven Laws of Showrunning.

While the author wrote it with his specific industry in mind, I think it has great nuggets that all businesses and leaders could draw from.

It’s fairly long (and let’s be real, you probably won’t read it all) so I will summarize the 11 laws for you:

1. “It's All About You - Stop Making It All About You”: Recognize your power and responsibility, but don't let ego get in the way of empowering your staff.

2. “Know Your Show and Tell Everyone What It Is”: Clearly communicate your vision to your team.

3. “Always Describe a Path to Success”: Provide clear directives and goals for your team.

4. “Make Decisions Early and Often”: Avoid decision aversion and commit to ideas quickly.

5. “Do Not Demand a Final Product at the Idea Stage”: Allow ideas to develop through the creative process.

6. “Write and Rewrite Quickly”: Produce scripts [read: work outputs] efficiently to keep production moving.

7. “Track Multiple Targets Efficiently by Delegating Responsibility”: Empower your writers to handle various aspects of production.

8. “Resist the Siren Call of the ‘Sexy Glamorous Jobs’": Focus on your core competency and job rather than getting distracted by the jobs and tasks of other people.

9. “Expect Your Staff to Perform at Varying Levels of Competence”: Understand and manage the different capabilities of your team members.

10. “Deliver Good and Bad News Early and Often”: Maintain transparency and open communication.

11. “Share Credit for Success to a Fault”: Be generous in acknowledging the contributions of your team.

If these piqued your interest, you can print out the full 25 page PDF and enjoy it over a leisurely lunch break.

3. Book Recommendation

I read Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman a couple of years ago, and this week I was reminded of how much I loved it when a friend sent a text letting me know he had just picked it up.

Four Thousand Weeks is both a productivity and an anti-productivity book. The cold hard fact is that we are going to die with unfinished to do lists. We each have limited time (approximately 4000 weeks as it turns out). Every day we must wake up and confront the existential and mundane question: “How should I spend my hours today?”

This book is simultaneously a philosophical treatise and an actionable guidebook. It is, dare I say, worth your time ;-)

4. Are you sleeping on HSAs?

I am surprised by how many people I meet who don’t understand how many tax benefits one can get from an HSA. It may be the single most tax-advantaged account in the country.

With most tax-advantaged accounts you either get taxed when you make contributions (i.e. the contributions you make are from your post-tax income or wages, such as with a Roth account) or you get taxed when you make withdrawals (i.e. with a traditional 401k).

With an HSA, on the other hand, there are no taxes on either end: Contributions are pre-tax, and withdrawals are untaxed.

But that’s not all!

If you own a business, there is another potential benefit: You can run your HSA contributions through your payroll, and those contributions are included as taxable wages on your W-2, but they are not subject to FICA taxes like regular wages are. However, you can still deduct the HSA contributions on your personal tax return, offsetting that income for federal income tax purposes.

Thus, if your company were to theoretically contribute the annual maximum amount to your HSA through your payroll ($8300) and lower your W2 income by the same amount (but make up for it in distributions), then you would be saving an additional $1270 in taxes (the 15.3% FICA taxes that you otherwise would be paying on that $8300).

A few other benefits of HSAs worth noting for the uninitiated:

• Unlike an FSA, your funds never expire. You can make HSA contributions today and then spend them at any point in the future.

• There is no time limit for past reimbursements. You can reimburse past eligible medical expenses from past years, so long as you have proper receipts.

• You can invest your HSA in the market, so all the contributions you make today can grow and compound tax free for decades.

• If you somehow end up having more in your HSA than you need to pay for HSA eligible expenses, you can just treat the account like a normal 401k/IRA: All withdrawals after the age of 65 that are NOT for eligible medical expenses are subject to income tax (just like your traditional 401k withdrawals), but there are no additional penalties.

Of course, you must have an eligible High Deductible Health Plan in order to be eligible to contribute to an HSA, so it’s certainly not for everyone. But, if you think an HDHP might work for you and your family and/or if you run your own business then it may be worth taking a good look at HSAs.

We’re not tax advisors BTW, so always consult your own CPA (if you have one).

5. Worth Clicking

• Good Wall Street Journal Profile of Kyla Scanlon (paywalled) , “The 27-Year-Old Economic Adviser for Gen Z.”

  Scanlon, 27 years old, is breaking all the rules for a career in finance and doing things her own way. Forget grinding away for years on Wall Street or getting a Ph.D. in economics. Young people pay attention to her analysis of topics ranging from monetary policy to the housing market to the business of dating apps, all delivered via TikTok, Instagram, X, YouTube, Substack and her podcast. She is perhaps best known for coining the term “vibecession” in 2022, to describe the disconnect between economic data and consumer sentiment. We weren’t in a recession, but Americans felt down about the economy. The vibes, she observed, were off.

  For non-paywalled content, you can sub to Kyla’s newsletter here, and you can find links to all her socials on her website. She was also recently on the Conversations with Tyler pod, which is in our regular queue.

  

• The UK, which is the birthplace of coal power, is shutting down its last coal powerplant, and ahead of schedule. (The BBC)

  The UK was the birthplace of coal power, and [now] it becomes the first major economy to give it up…The first coal-fired power station in the world, the Holborn Viaduct power station, was built in 1882 in London by the inventor Thomas Edison - bringing light to the streets of the capital… From that point through the first half of the twentieth century, coal provided pretty much all of the UK’s electricity, powering homes and businesses….In 2010, renewables generated just 7% of the UK’s power. By the first half of 2024, this had grown to more than 50% - a new record.

  

• Tim Urban: Idea Labs vs Echo chambers

  “In Idea Lab culture, people love to play with ideas and disagree, and no one takes it personally when someone challenges their idea. In Echo Chamber culture, where everyone always agrees on the sacred topics, disagreement is seen as an insult.

  

That’s all for today folks.

Enjoy your week. Life is beautiful. Do good work. Etc.

Peter & Keeley

The Uncommon Business Bulletin is a weekly roundup of ideas, news, links, and resources for mission-driven businesses, leaders, employees, entrepreneurs, and curious humans.

1. What is Perpetual Purpose Trust Ownership?

Imagine you have built a great company. It’s a place where people enjoy showing up to work. It’s an institution that is deeply embedded into it’s community. It has a culture in which people prioritize doing the right thing rather than the most profitable thing.

But now you’re getting older, and you are ready to work a little less. You want to spend more time with your grandkids. Play chess in the park. Museum hop around the world. Finally get around to weeding your garden. Whatever your thing is.

You love your company, and you care deeply about your people, but your financial reality is that 50% of your net worth is tied up in the value of your illiquid stock. You need that money to become liquid so that you can retire and ride into the sunset without worrying about whether your car is about to break down.

So you have a quandary.

How can you sell your company while still preserving all of the things that you care about: your employees, your company culture and independence, and your community roots?

It’s not an easy question to answer.

But, what if a buyer showed up at your door and said:

“Hi. I’d like to buy your company. Oh and by the way, here are my conditions:

• I want it to stay independent forever

• I never want to sell the company

• I want the company to balance profit with purpose

• I never want to take a distribution or a dividend.

• In fact, I never want to personally extract any profit at all, because I want to give most of the profit back to the employees and use the rest for improving operations and focusing on sustainable growth.

• I want you to be involved at the board or advisor level… but only if you want to be, and only for as long as you want.

Oh, and one more thing… I am immortal and I will never die.”

Well, that buyer exists. It is called a Perpetual Purpose Trust.

A Perpetual Purpose Trust (PPT) is a special type of trust in the US which, rather than being dedicated to a specific person or charity, is designed to benefit a purpose.

PPTs can own operating businesses and they are extremely flexible in their design and mandate. (By the way, Perpetual Purpose Trusts are also commonly referred to as “Employee Ownership Trusts” or “EOTs” which, from a legal perspective, are really just Perpetual Purpose Trusts focused on employee benefit.)

PPTs/EOTs are on the rise in the US. A decade ago there were only a handful. Now there are over 50. Within a decade, I predict there will be over 500.

Here at Lumo Group, we help companies explore and implement trust ownership. If you want to learn more, please reach out (hello@lumogroup.co) and ask for a complementary call.

2. Should climate change activists eat meat? It depends on who you ask.

In our Uncommon Business podcast episode with Cory Carman, the CEO of Carman Ranch, I asked her the following question: “Is vegetarianism/veganism in the name of climate change misguided?” Cory is someone who both raises cattle and sells meat and also someone who cares deeply about the earth, the climate, and the environment. You can listen to her answer to my question at around minute 30:00 of our podcast (but really, the whole episode is worth listening to.)

3. What should I ask Sports Bra Founder and CEO Jenny Nguyen?

In a few weeks I will be interviewing Jenny Nguyen, Founder/CEO of The Sports Bra, the country’s first sports bar dedicated to women’s sports. Earlier this year, The Sports Bra (or just “The Bra” as it’s known more colloquially) made waves when it announced plans to expand nationally, backed by an investment and partnership from Alexis Ohanian, the founder of Seven Seven Six, and the former co-founder of Reddit (who, despite his many accomplishments, is perhaps best known as Mr. Serena Williams.)

So - what do you want me to ask Jenny?

4. Worth Clicking

• Gen Z is spending more time at the office. And they’re happy about it (Wall Street Journal, h/t 21 Hats)

  Sidney Cooper, a self-described introvert, used to enjoy working remotely. But after a few months at home, the 26-year-old Evansville, Ind., marketing manager missed in-person interactions.

  “It was lonely and depressing, and I wanted an in-office position,” Cooper says.

  Five months into her current role, Cooper says she relishes going to the office and interacting with her co-workers. Her job entails her putting on a lot of events in the community, giving her more chances to interact with others. She makes TikToks about the small things that make her happy at work, like a great avocado-toast lunch or a midday Diet Coke.

• Should Companies Be Owned by Their Workers? (Freakonomics Radio)

  “The employee ownership movement is growing, and one of its biggest champions is also a private equity heavyweight. Is this meaningful change, or just window dressing?”

  I thought this was a good episode and I am glad to see more mainstream media (Freakonomics is mainstream, right?) diving into the topic of employee ownership.

• Colorado is becoming an employee ownership hub (Colorado Newsline)

  “As Danielle Carre and Brad Burritt considered their retirement, they wanted to make sure the Colorado company they built stayed in town and continued to contribute to the economic fabric of rural Delta County…

  Instead of selling the company or handpicking a new owner, however, the duo made an unconventional business choice and converted Empowered Energy Systems into a worker-owned cooperative, putting the company’s future into the hands of its employees…
  

  More Colorado businesses are converting to employee-owned models with the direct support of an office within the state’s Office of Economic Development and International Trade. Experts say Colorado’s office is a model in how states can support businesses that want to explore or transition to employee ownership.”

5. Reading list - what recommendations do you have for us?

What are your favorite business/leadership/management/operations books? We are building out our internal “Lumo Group reading list” for 2025 and we your input.

Comment on this post or send us an email with your recommendations. We’ll share all the recs we get, as well as some of our favorites, in our next Uncommon Business Bulletin.

6. KYM - Know Your Memes

Sometimes, simpler is better.

That’s all for today folks.

Enjoy your week. Life is beautiful. Do good work. Etc.

The Uncommon Business Bulletin #3

September 10, 2024

Aaaand we’re back. After posting our first and second Uncommon Business Bulletins, we took the rest of the summer off from media production.

Now we’re back, and you can expect a weekly newsletter from here on out (with occasional vacation breaks).

If you ever have questions or feedback for us, leave a comment on this post or hit us up at hello@lumogroup.co.

1. New Uncommon Business Podcast Episode: This episode is a little different. I (Peter) am actually interviewing my usual co-host Keeley about her previous company, Wild Friends Foods. Now that Wild Friends is officially closing its doors after 13 (!!) years, Keeley can talk about it more freely. You can check it out below, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.
   

2. “Is this the Succession Plan for You?” - I (Peter) was recently on the 21 Hats Podcast to talk to entrepreneur Jay Goltz about whether a Purpose Trust or Employee Benefit Trust might be the right move for him and his business. If you’re thinking about succession planning for your business (or know someone who is), you can listen to us have a live conversation about the types of businesses that might be right for trust ownership. Listen on 21 Hats, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your pods.
   

3. Do you know about the small business retirement plan tax credit?

   1. If you run a small business (<100 employees) you “may be able to claim a tax credit of up to $5,000, for three years, for the ordinary and necessary costs of starting a SEP, SIMPLE IRA or qualified plan (like a 401(k) plan” as part of the small business retirement plan tax credit program.

   2. You may claim the credit to offset the costs you incur to set up and administer the plan, and to educate your employees about the plan.

   3. As a reminder, a credit is more advantageous than a deduction, as it reduces your tax burden dollar for dollar, rather than just reducing your taxable income.

   4. TL;DR: If you’ve been thinking about setting up a retirement plan for you and your employees, be sure to take advantage of this tax credit. Read more about the startup credit and other credits/incentives for setting up retirement plans in this article from Guideline.
      

4. Other Things Worth Clicking:

   1. Economist Noah Smith on taxing unrealized gains (there are better ways to increase taxes on the rich)

   2. Urbanist Ed Glaeser on tackling the housing affordability crisis (he suggests a stick, rather than a carrot approach).

   3. Acquired’s podcast episode on Costco - must-listen material for any business owner, leader, or investor. Fantastic breakdown of one of the world’s most interesting companies.

   4. over at Employee Ownership + Workplace Democracy writes about “Psychological Ownership.” I really like this term and think it’s something that all leaders should think about fostering, regardless of their ownership structure (of course, it may be easier to foster in an employee ownership / benefit structure).
      

5. KYM (Know Your Memes): I keep this GIF from The Last Dance (highly recommend BTW) saved on my desktop, because occasionally it’s the perfect response to a text message or tweet. For today, I will pair it with the caption: “When the latest issue of Uncommon Business hits your inbox” 😉

   

That’s all for today folks.

Enjoy your week. Life is beautiful. Do good work. Etc.

Reply to this email and let us know what you thought.

Today’s episode is a little different.

I (Peter) am actually interviewing my co-host Keeley about her previous company, Wild Friends Foods.

Prior to co-founding Lumo Group, Keeley was the co-founder and CEO of a nut and seed butter company called Wild Friends Foods. All the way back in 2011 Keeley and her roommate and best friend Erika decided to start making their own nut butter in their college apartment. One thing led to the next and soon they were selling it at a local farmers market. Then they got shelf space at a local natural foods grocery chain. Then they dropped out of college to build the company full time.

Now, 13 years later, Wild Friends is officially shutting down. It was a wild ride, full of ups and downs and successes and failures. But ultimately it was THE formative professional experience of Keeley’s life that led her to where she is today. 

During this conversation, Keeley looks back and shares the unfiltered story of Wild Friends, and her key reflections and learnings from her journey over the past decade plus.

You can listen to our conversation with Keeley right here in Substack (scroll up), on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Topics Discussed:

• Teaser Clip and Introduction

• Keeley discuss the history and journey of her previous company, Wild Friends Foods

• How Keeley and her co-founder Erika stumbled into entrepreneurship

• From farmers market to retail

• The early growth phase

• Exciting products or initiatives that didn’t succeed

• Best sellers and consumer psychology

• Raising investory money

• The costs and benefits of capital raising

• Hard times at Wild Friends

• Keeley's proudest moments of her journey with Wild Friends

• Deciding to sell the company 

• The challenges and processes involved in selling a company

• The story of selling just before the COVID-19 lockdown.

• Why the company "failed"

• Hiring and Firing

• Leadership and management 

• Advice for entrepreneurs on strategy development

• Mentors and Advisors

• Why did Keeley co-found Lumo Group?

• Rapid Fire Questions: all-time favorite Wild Friends flavor,  current go to breakfast, current workout routine, favorite Olympic sport to watch, current favorite hobby outside of work, go-to podcasts, lessons learned from her kid, book recommendations: favorite business/workbook, favorite parenting book or resource, favorite young adult book, adult fiction books

Please help this interview reach more people by rating Uncommon Business on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

The Uncommon Business Bulletin #2

August 2nd, 2024

1. Is there any internal operations activity that your company does exceptionally well that you could turn into a product or service to sell to other businesses? That’s what Kyle Koehler (no relation to me, Peter Koehler), CEO of Wildway Foods, has done with his business (for the unfamiliar, 3PL = Third Party Logistics):

   

   As you think about your 2025 Strategic Plan (btw, if you need help with that process, reach out to us), consider whether there are any natural/organic ways to diversify your revenue by capitalizing on your existing strengths.
   

2. The SBA has a couple of new/expanded loan programs small business owners and managers should be aware of:

   1. They are expanding a flagship lending program to favor more climate-friendly businesses. Per The SMB Center: “This includes businesses involved in renewable energy, energy efficiency, and other climate-friendly projects….The expanded loan program offers several advantages for green startups. These include competitive interest rates, extended repayment terms, and the ability to use the funds for various purposes such as working capital, equipment purchase, and refinancing existing debt.”

   2. They are introducing a Small Business Line of Credit Pilot Program later this year. It will create “a government-backed credit line designed to give [small businesses] greater flexibility than a traditional term loan.”

3. Should you hire more former freelancers? Jason Fried, CEO of Basecamp, thinks so. In his appearance on The Uncommon Business podcast, Jason talked about how thinks about hiring, and why he loves hiring former freelancers (one core reason: They are better at self-management). Listen to the full episode (or on Spotify / the pod player of your choice)
   

4. “Patagonia is the exception, not the rule. Most of the businesses making this transition to trust ownership are small or medium sized businesses.” Recently I (Peter) was on a The 21 Hats podcast to talk about Employee Ownership Trusts as a succession planning option for mission-driven business owners. If you own a small business and you are thinking you want to retire or move onto your next thing sometime in the next five years, you might find this episode useful and informative. If you are interested in exploring Trust Ownership for your business, reach out to us by sending a note to hello@lumogroup.co. We can help.
   

5. Are you a small-business owner who doesn't have any employees (apart from you and your spouse)? If so, then a Solo 401k (also known as a Self-employed 401k or an Individual 401k) is likely the best plan for you in terms of being able to maximize your contributions.

   • If you’ve been dragging your feet on setting up your own retirement plan, or if your enrolled in another plan type (like a SEP IRA) and feel like you want to increase your contributions, it could be worth looking into a Solo401k.

   • Here is a good overview from Fidelity and here is a helpful Twitter thread to give you a quick 101 on Solo 401Ks and their benefits.

   • One decision to make is whether you want to use a standard 401k or a Roth 401k. Personally, since you can’t predict future tax rates, I like to optimize for tax diversification, and I split my contributions 50/50 between standard and Roth. This is a geeky finance nerd thing to do and it will likely have a marginal impact, if any. So don’t stress about picking the “right one.”

   • Not all providers offer Roth Solo 401ks though, so if that is important to you, then you will need to find one that does, such as ETRADE, Schwab, or Vanguard.

   • If you want access to a wider variety of investment options (i.e. real estate, crypto, private company stock), then you will want to open a self-directed 401k. There are multiple providers of those, such as mysolo401k.com.
     

6. KYM: Know Your Memes:
   This week two Olympic shooters took the internet by storm: Kim Yeji of South Korea and Yusuf Dikec of Turkey (photos below). The images speak for themselves: Yeji looks like hero/villain from a movie set in 2075 (“the most aura I have ever seen in an image” says the X account Women Posting Ws). Dikec, 51, looks like your local accountant who walked in off the street (note the lack of specialized lenses or ear protection and the hand in the pocket). They both took home silver medals.

   

   

That’s all for today folks.

Enjoy your weekends. Life is beautiful. Do good work. Etc.

Reply to this email and let us know what you thought.

Oh, and one specific question for you:

What day of the week would you prefer that we send these out?

Thus far, Uncommon Business has featured interviews with business leaders who do things differently. We have had five top notch guests so far:

• Jason Fried, founder/CEO of Basecamp

• Cory Carman, CEO of Carman Ranch

• Ari Weinzweig, founder of Zingerman’s Community of Businesses

• Darren Marshall, CEO of Smith Teamaker

• Wes Kao, Founder of Maven and altMBA, Writer, and Coach

We are going to keep doing our interviews. But we’re also trying something new.

Starting today, we are sharing regular roundups of news, articles, and other things that (we hope!) are relevant to small- and medium-sized business, entrepreneurs, leaders, employees, and readers who are generally interested in entrepreneurship, leadership, economics, policy, and finance.

Scroll down to read our first Uncommon Business Bulletin, and then let us know (with brutal and unsparing honesty) what you think.

Peter

The Uncommon Business Bulletin #1

• ChatGPT announces SearchGPT. You can learn more and join the waitlist now. ChatGPT has already replaced Google for many of my queries, and SearchGPT takes it the next level.
  

• Non-Compete Agreements are becoming illegal effective September 4th, thanks to a recent court decision upholding the proposed ban from the Biden administration. From CNBC: “About 30 million people, or 20% of U.S. workers, have signed noncompetes, according to the FTC.” Now those workers will be able to freely join competitors or start their own competitor. Make sure whoever leads HR at your business (maybe you?) is aware of the rule change.
  

• “A Successful Owner Chooses an Innovative Exit” - I (Peter) was recently a guest on the 21 Hats Podcast alongside Laura Anderson, founder and former owner of Local Ocean Seafoods. Laura is a former client, and during this episode we talked about her decision to transition the company into an Employee Ownership Trust. You can listen/read on 21 Hats, Spotify, Apple, etc.
  

• If you rollover an old 401k, don’t forget to invest it! From the Wall Street Journal: “When people roll 401(k) balances from their old company’s plan into an individual retirement account, the money is frequently held as cash until they select new investments. Many never do, according to new research from Vanguard Group. Nearly a third who rolled savings into IRAs at Vanguard in 2015 still had the balance sitting in cash seven years later.” (P.S. When you do invest it, probably the best thing to do is to choose boring index funds like Kamala Harris and Doug Emhoff. NFA, etc, etc.)
  

• This is a cool profile of Central States Manufacturing from over at . Central States Manufacturing is employee owned via an ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan). “There are 47 millionaires working for Central States Manufacturing, and they’re not all in the C-Suite. Many of them are drivers or machinists—blue-collar workers for the company.” The articles covers the company and also gives a 101 on ESOPs for readers who may not be familiar. (Note: Here at Lumo Group, we help founders exit into Employee Ownership Trusts or Purpose Trusts, which are a “cousin” of ESOPs)
  

• KYM: Know Your Memes. When your colleagues are chatting by the water cooler or in the #random channel of your company Slack, you don’t want to be the only one who doesn’t get it. This week’s KYM is simple, and incredibly viral: Kamala is Brat. If you care, here is more from the Atlantic.

Alright! That is all for the first edition of The Uncommon Business Bulletin.

Please reply to this email and let us know what you thought.

Here are some prompts:

1. Did you find it interesting/useful?

2. Would you usually open these Bulletins if you saw them in your inbox?

3. Was it too long, too short, or just right?

4. How often would you like to get these?

5. Any other comments/questions

We’d love your response to the questions above, i.e.:

1. No

2. No

3. Too Long

4. Never

5. Did AI write this?

Thank you, and see you next time.

Today’s interview is high energy, insightful and fun.

is an entrepreneur, marketer, coach, advisor, and fellow newsletter author. Wes has co-founded two companies: Maven, an edtech company that raised $25M from First Round and Andreessen Horowitz, and the altMBA, which she co-founded with bestselling author Seth Godin.

Over 250,000 people follow Wes across LinkedIn, X, and Substack.

You can listen to our conversation with Wes right here in Substack (scroll up), on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Wes Kao is a force to be reckoned with.

Keeley and I (Peter) first met Wes back in 2016 when we both participated in one of the first cohorts of the altMBA.

For those who aren’t familiar, altMBA is essentially a month-long online leadership bootcamp. The work we did and the frameworks we learned during that month continue to influence our work - and we have Wes to thank for that.

Since our time in the altMBA, we have followed Wes’s career with interest, as she co-founded another company (Maven) and then struck out on her own to help individuals and teams level up.

Every week, Wes’s newsletter pushes us to hold ourselves and others to a higher standard. Wes is rigorous, thoughtful, and good at coining memorable frameworks (some of which we discuss today!)

This was a super fun conversation. Keeley and I enjoyed debriefing this one (which you can listen to after the interview).

Enjoy this conversation with Wes Kao.

Topics Discussed:

• [00:00] Teaser Clip and Introduction

• [03:08] Wes’s background

• [03:55] What it means to be a high performer

• [08:52] Wes’s career arc

• [14:03] Lessons that Wes learned from Seth Godin, and what they disagree about

• [21:07] “Spiky points of view”

• [28:46] The “state change method”

• [31:17] Wes’s big vision for her business

• [35:47] Coaching

• [40:37] Organizational resilience, leadership succession, and getting raises

• [48:33] Toronto

• [49:42] Newsletters

• [52:05] YouTube

• [52:46] Houseplants

• [55:04] Book recommendations

• [55:48] Post-interview debrief with Peter and Keeley

Please help this interview reach more people by rating Uncommon Business on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

Peter and Keeley here. It’s been a minute!

We’ve been helping companies with ownership transitions, streamlining and improving operations, and capital finance.

Now we’re coming up for air to bring you a new episode of Uncommon Business, our show about unique businesses and leaders who do things differently. 

Our guest is Darren Marshall. Darren is the CEO of Smith Teamaker. Prior to Smith, Darren worked in high level roles at iconic companies such as Coca Cola and Steinway.

You can listen to the episode right here in Substack (scroll up), on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

People have been drinking tea for centuries.

It is one of the oldest consumer products in the world.

Because tea has been around forever, the category as a whole is relatively sleepy.

The tea industry has only experienced low single digit growth on average over the past decade. But Smith Teamaker has bucked this slow growth trend by growing dramatically over the past five years under Darren’s leadership.

We have talked to founders on this podcast before. But the reason we wanted to talk to Darren was the opposite. He is not the founder of Smith Teamaker. He joined the company as CEO in 2018 and has overseen a period of transformation, growth, and adaptability, even through COVID.

Succeeding a founder as CEO can be challenging. It’s not easy to step into a founder-led business and keep excitement and momentum going. Yet that is exactly what Darren has done, and much more. Today the business is much healthier and growing more quickly than ever before.

This was a fun and informative conversation. Darren discusses many lessons and frameworks that are applicable to a wide range of businesses and leaders.

Enjoy!

Topics Discussed:

• Introduction from Peter and Keeley

• The founding story of Smith Tea (interview starts at 00:02:52)

• Succeeding a founder and how to navigate it and how Darren approached his first few months on the job

• Best and worst parts of working at Coca Cola

• Darren’s time at Steinway and the ins and outs of the luxury piano market

• How the company is growing through agility, innovation, and culture

• Maintaining a business in central Portland despite the property crime

• The ownership of the company and the outlook for the future

• Tip on effectively managing upward (i.e. to a board)

• Hiring practices

• Leadership

• Darren’s favorite cities

• Classical music recommendations

• Book recommendation

• Darren’s current tea order

• Debrief on the interview from Keeley and Peter (debrief starts at 01:04:51)

Please help this interview reach more people by rating it on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

Peter and Keeley here with something for your ears: Episode 3 of Uncommon Business, our show about unique businesses and leaders who do things differently. 

Today our podcast guest is Ari Weinzweig. Ari is the co-founder of Zingerman’s Community of Businesses. He is also an author who has inspired leaders and businesses worldwide by sharing his philosophies about business, visioning, beliefs, and leadership.

You can listen to the episode right here in Substack (scroll up), on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Let’s rewind all the way back to 1982. 

Ronald Reagan was in his first term. The United States was in recession. The Weather Channel had just launched. And, in the small college town of Ann Arbor Michigan, a young man with a Russian History Degree co-founded Zingerman’s Delicatessen with a friend and a $20,000 bank loan. 

That young man, Ari Weinzweig, and his partner Paul Saginaw opened Zingerman’s with just two employees and a small selection of exceptional specialty foods and sandwiches. Today, Zingerman’s has developed into a Community of 14 different Businesses with hundreds of employees.

I (Peter) first heard about Ari nearly a decade ago when one of my early business mentors told me that I had to read his books. Ari, in addition to being an incredible entrepreneur and leader, is also a prolific writer and author. I personally think of Ari as a philosopher disguised as a business person. 

Ari has written multiple books about business, leadership, management, and beliefs, and every week he sends out a thoughtful multi-thousand word essay via his newsletter, Ari’s Top 5 (we highly recommend subscribing). Through his writing, Ari has inspired thousands of business leaders and employees to think differently about their business and their operations.

After following Ari for the better part of the last decade, I was thrilled when I got the opportunity to help Ari and his partners transition the company to Perpetual Purpose Trust ownership. That process started in 2022 and concluded in early 2023. They are one of the higher profile businesses in the country to have made the leap to Trust ownership.

Trust ownership is just one of the many, many topics we cover during today’s conversation. See below for a full rundown.

We hope you learn something new from this conversation. Please reply and let us know what you thought the most interesting part was.

TOPICS WE DISCUSSED:
[00:00] Introduction
[04:08] What Ari learned while washing dishes at Maud’s
[05:18] Ari’s entrepreneurial path
[06:36] Ari’s decision to hire a full time illustrator in 1991
[09:53] The process of writing the mission and guiding principles for Zingerman’s
[12:47] Ari’s favorite guiding principle 
[14:21] Rule-breaking with a philosophical foundation
[20:53] What does it mean to be anarchist? What are some common misconceptions about anarchy and anarchists? 
[31:44] Who is Emma Goldman?
[36:05] What are some things that Ari has tried and failed?
[38:36] What is Ari focusing on lately in business?
[39:13] What is the Zingerman's approach to business? 
[47:35] What's one thing Ari has learned from Seth Godin? 
[49:37] What is a “vision,” and how is it different from a strategic plan?
[54:28] Zingerman's 2032 vision
[01:00:37] Ari’s current personal vision for 2030
[01:03:51] Visioning process
[01:06:33]  What recent beliefs has Ari changed? How did he go about that? 
[01:10:58] What are Ari's beliefs that he hides or he doesn't advertise because he feels they aren't socially acceptable? 
[01:13:20] How does Ari personally handle transitions?
[01:16:31] The role of trust in organizations and strategies for building trust among team members
[01:26:38] The analogy of an old growth forest applied to businesses and communities
[01:30:59] What is the “energy crisis” facing the American workplace, and how do we fix it? 
[01:35:20] How does Ari keep his head in the game? How does Ari manage his own energy? 
[01:38:21] Ari’s prolific reading routine and how he decide what to read next
[01:44:15] Book recommendations
[01:45:27] A good recipe Ari cooked recently
[01:47:31] Appreciations
[01:48:22] Post-interview debrief with Peter and Keeley

Please help this interview reach more people by rating it on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

Peter here with Episode 2 of Uncommon Business, our show about unique businesses and leaders who do things differently. 

Today our podcast guest is Cory Carman. Cory is a rancher, entrepreneur, innovator, parent, and the CEO of Carman Ranch, a regenerative cattle and meat company in Eastern Oregon.

You can listen to the episode right here in Substack, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Cory is a female leader in a historically male-dominated industry (however, as Cory points out in the episode, there are and historically have been more women in ranching than one might assume). What’s actually even more trailblazing about Carman Ranch is Cory’s holistic approach to running a truly regenerative company.

Cory says that she is in the business of raising soil, not just cattle. Soil health underlies everything - from the resilience of our ecosystem to the nutritional density of the food we consume, and Carman Ranch operates with that in mind.

One reason we are excited to have Cory on the show is because she does things differently, which is the theme of this show. Cory doesn’t care about conventional thinking and is more than happy to spend her time working toward a future that she sees as common sense but others see as risky or naive. She is also comfortable holding unpopular opinions, not because she is a contrarian, but because she thinks for herself.

This conversation gets into the weeds! Cory gets specific on how she runs her business, the ranching industry, the impact of our food choices, how she capitalized her business, what she is working on as a leader, and much much more.

As you'll see in this episode, Cory is a nuanced thinker. She doesn't think in black-and-white terms, which makes her refreshing to listen to.

TOPICS WE DISCUSSED:

• [00:00] Introduction

• [02:43] Cory's Spotted Owl Paper at Stanford

• [05:51] Unconventional thinking and staying focused on her mission

• [7:50] Cory's life and work on the ranch and background on the business

• [11:00] What Cory learned from her grandmother Ruth

• [13:20] Women in ranching 

• [16:48] Carman Ranch’s competitive advantage

• [18:00] Factory farming and commodity beef vs. other approaches

• [23:00] Policy and Regulatory landscape

• [28:00] Can you buy good meat at Whole Foods + general discussion about the impact of our food choices

• [30:00] Is vegetarianism/veganism in the name of climate change misguided?

• [35:12] “Raising Soil” - Using cattle for ecological health and regenerative agriculture.

• [37:45] What is regenerative agriculture anyway?

• [39:00] The nutritional and taste differences of grass-fed vs grain-fed beef

• [46:00] Slaughter and processing overview

• [49:17] Complexity and challenges in the processing industry

• [52:00] Carman Ranch’s business model

• [53:25] Carman’s ranch’s partnerships with other producers

• [56:20] Financing Carman Ranch with mission-aligned investments and the structure and terms of those investments

• [1:02:00] Carman Ranch’s financial performance

• [1:03:40] Challenges that Carman Ranch is dealing with right now

• [1:08:00] What Cory cooks with her ground beef

• [1:08:50] Carman Ranch’s direct-to-consumer business

• [1:10:40] What Cory is working on as a leader

• [1:13:00] Cory’s role models/inspirations

• [1:14:00] Cory’s parenting style and philosophy

• [1:17:50] Should we rethink child labor laws?

• [1:20:25] Rural values

• [1:22:00] Book recommendations

• [1:23:15] Cory’s favorite vacation spots + Eastern Oregon recommendations

• [1:25:45] Cory’s favorite dinners

• [1:27:00] Where to buy Carman Ranch’s products

• [1:28:00] Post-interview debrief with Peter and Keeley

ABOUT CORY CARMAN:

• LINKEDIN | Cory Carman

• WEBSITE | www.carmanranch.com

Please help this interview reach more people by rating it on Spotify and Apple or by sharing it with others.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

Peter here.

Today we’re dropping Episode 1 of Uncommon Business, our show about unique businesses and leaders who do things differently. 

For our very first episode ever, I sat down with one of the most original entrepreneurs I can think of: Jason Fried. You can listen to the episode right here in Substack, on Spotify, or in the podcast player of your choice.

Jason is the Co-Founder and CEO at 37signals, makers of Basecamp and HEY. He is also the New York Times bestselling co-author of multiple books including Rework, Getting Real, REMOTE, and It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work.

Jason writes a blog and posts almost daily about business strategy and tactics on both LinkedIn and X to his combined 400,000 followers. 

The reason we wanted to kick off Uncommon Business Season 1 with Jason is because he is the epitome of a business leader who does things differently, which is the theme of this show. 

For example, at 37Signals:

• They don’t make annual forecasts.

• They never plan more than 6 weeks ahead

• Employees often have multiple days per week without any meetings on their calendars

• They are a growth-oriented tech company that has been profitable since day one (which, if you didn’t realize, is quite unusual)

Those are just a few of the ways that they buck “conventional” business practices.

One of the things I appreciate about Jason is that he takes the time to write down how he and his team work, and he shares it with the world.

Not only is this brilliant marketing, but it is also a generous service to other entrepreneurs and business leaders who want real, specific examples of how they too might do things differently.

One funny tidbit: When Jason and I were coordinating this interview, I told him I would send some bullet points in advance on the topics that I was planning to cover. He replied and (kindly) rejected my plan. He wrote, “Please don’t send any topics ahead of time. Whatever you want to talk about is fine, but I don’t want to know. A true spontaneous conversation is the best kind.”

TOPICS WE DISCUSSED:

• What 37signals does, how they are structured, and how they work

• Why Jason writes so much and why he feels “morally obligated” to share his business philosophies and practices

• How he thinks about hiring, and why he loves hiring former freelancers

• 37signal’s compensation philosophy and the specific details around how they structure comp across their entire remote team

• The story of how Jason raised money from Jeff Bezos early on as a way to take some risk off the table

• His framework for making difficult decisions

• What current day Jason would tell past Jason about being an effective leader of people

• What Jason has been feeling frustrated about lately

• What he did for his recent sabbatical and what he is growing in his garden (and the 37signals sabbatical policy)

• The value of Tom Petty lyrics and his favorite Tom Petty song

Further Reading and Resources

• Jason has written or co-written multiple books Rework, Getting Real, REMOTE, and It Doesn’t Have to Be Crazy at Work.

• One of the books that he contributed to - Shape Up - is available fully online and goes into depth on “The Basecamp Way” of doing things. Highly recommend.

• Jason’s blog, LinkedIn, and X accounts are all great follows

• If you are in the market for project management software, check out Basecamp

• If you are unhappy with your current email provider and interested in a different kind of email experience, check out HEY

Please help this interview reach more people by sharing it on whichever platform you like share things and/or by forwarding along to a friend or colleague who you think might enjoy it.

We would love your feedback, comments, and questions. Please leave a comment directly on the post or email us at hello@lumogroup.co.

Thank you!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

It’s Peter and Keeley, your friends at Lumo Group.

At some point in the past six months, you subscribed to our newsletter on our website. Thank you!

Our newsletter is called Uncommon Business. We focus on businesses and leaders who do things differently.

We’re also launching a podcast by the same name. Our podcast feed is live and our teaser episode is out now.

Our first full podcast episode and newsletter will be coming out next week. Peter sat down with Jason Fried, the founder of Basecamp and the New York Times bestselling author of Rework. It was a really great conversation.

Please follow the podcast in the pod player of your choice (Apple, Spotify, etc).

Before we sign off, we have three questions for you. Respond either in the comments (public) or by replying to this email (private).

1. Who are you?

2. What are you working on?

3. Where do you live?

4. (Bonus Question!) What is a business or leadership book you often recommend?
   

Leave a comment

Until next week,

Peter Koehler & Keeley Tillotson
Founders/Partners at Lumo Group

• Follow us on Spotify

• Follow us on Apple Podcasts

• Or find us in the pod player of your choice by searching for Uncommon Business or copying and pasting our RSS feed: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2230716.rss

Our two minute teaser is live now.

Our first full length episode is coming out very soon and it will include an interview with entrepreneur and New York Times bestselling author Jason Fried (who we recommend following on LinkedIn for regular thought-provoking posts).

Thanks for following along!

Peter & Keeley
Partners, Lumo Group

p.s. If there are any guests you’d love us to invite on our pod, let us know in the comments.